Talent Development Centre

Tag Archives: ethics

All Talent Development Centre posts for Canadian technology contractors relating to ethics.

Your Client’s Workplace is Toxic — Time to Get Out!

Your Client’s Workplace is Toxic -- Time to Get Out!

Professionals often go into the gig economy to work for themselves because they don’t want to answer to a boss or manage employees. IT contractors know that, although their company and decisions are their own, they still need to answer to a client and, more dreadfully, work with their employees and put-up with their office shenanigans.

Most client workplaces are great. The weird employees, freeloading team members and awkward individuals will always exist, but for the most part, the environments are bearable and you’re capable of delivering on your requirements. Then, there are those other client sites. The toxic workplaces where nobody is happy, you can’t get anything done and, and it starts to take a toll on your mental health.

How can you tell if you’ve joined an IT project team that’s part of a toxic work environment? There are a number of common signs, many of which are summed up well in this Inc. article. Generally, you’ll notice that a toxic office has low energy and motivation among all the employees. They might seem happy and agreeable, but when you pull back the curtains, you notice that people are gossiping about each other, working in silos and cliques rather than teams, and having unofficial sidebar meetings.

Once you’ve been at the client site for a little longer, additional signs start to pop-up. The lazy people are still getting away with murder, others are getting promoted based on no merit whatsoever, and the few people who were an asset to your project slowly start to leave.

Now the bells are going off and you realize that there is no way you can be successful in an environment like this. Regardless of your experience as an IT contractor, there’s only so much you can do to make technology projects succeed. If the organizational support is not there, you’re sure to crash and burn, and your reputation will take a hit. So, what do you do?

Don’t Give-Up Too Easily

If the contract doesn’t have much time left on it, keep your head down and focus on your deliverables without getting sucked into the drama. Working from home when possible and avoiding the toxic individuals will help.

Cover Your Bases

You also need to think of self-preservation. An environment like this means employees are going to throw you under the bus whenever possible, so you need to be prepared. Document all your work and conversations. When somebody tries to point the blame your way because they didn’t complete a task or messed-up a deliverable, your notes and emails might be your only saviour.

Keep Your Recruiter in the Loop

Staffing agencies bring value to IT contractors in several ways, one of which being that they help you navigate these situations. Let your recruiter know that something’s sour in the environment as soon as you notice it so they can help you find solutions. Most importantly, be upfront if you think leaving might be the only option, providing plenty of notice. This popular post by Morley Surcon includes tips on how to leave a contract early, if it’s absolutely necessary.

A toxic work environment is a brutal place to have to spend 40 hours a week, but unfortunately, they exist across all regions, in all industries. If you find that yourself in one when you start your placement, act fast by either developing your plan to adjust and succeed, or preparing an exit plan that keeps your integrity intact.

The Growing Problem of Fraudulent Credentials (and the impact on honest consultants!)

Morley Surcon By Morley Surcon,
Vice-President Strategic Accounts & Client Solutions, Western Canada at Eagle

The Growing Problem of Fraudulent Credentials (and the impact on honest consultants!)

Let me start by saying that the vast majority of contractors and applicants are 100% honest and represent themselves, their work and educational achievements fairly and correctly. That said, there is a growing issue in the labour market of people misrepresenting themselves in order to qualify for open postings. This may have been the case for years and it flew under the radar; however, with new vetting techniques and technology it is getting caught more and more often. Also, as more companies are being burned by fraudulent activity, they are both demanding and completing deeper vetting of candidates.

Misrepresentation takes multiple forms, from small embellishments and mis-matched dates covering small gaps in work experience, to much more nefarious activities. Some of the more brazen attempts to mislead potential employers include:

  • Presenting completely falsified resumes: This can be done as an individual doctoring their own resume, or there are “resume banks” available to people who pay to use them. This can include education or work experience falsification, but sometimes the entire resume is completely fabricated.
  • References are often faked: Friends, family or even themselves as the person who answers the phone number of the given reference.
  • Stand-ins for phone interviews (or even Skype interviews!!): Whereby someone with the actual knowledge completes the technical job interview on the fraudster’s behalf. The unwitting company hires and doesn’t realize that there was a change until they show up on the first day of work. If the company is complex enough, the people conducting the interview may not even be the same people who meet the new hire on the first day. Pretty brazen of them to try this!

It is unclear what people are trying to accomplish by faking their way into a job in these ways. It will catch up with them. They aren’t truly qualified to complete the work and they will be terminated, if not for the fraud then for incompetence. However, there are desperate people and if they can fake their way to earning even a few weeks’ pay before being found out then they move on to their next “victim”. It is too time-consuming and costly to press charges… and they get away with it.

What is the industry doing about this? Well, many companies are completing their own vetting even if they use a recruitment agency to source and qualify candidates. IT is a small industry and if someone says that they worked for XYZ Corp., then there is likely someone at the company that knows someone at the other company who can verify whether the candidate actually did what they said they did. Staffing agencies have been doing this for some time now and it is standard practice in the fight against fraudsters. Another check is simply a comparison against old resumes. Most agencies collect resumes from people over the course of many years – older experience in new resumes must match that found in their older resumes, and also in their LinkedIn profiles. References may not be called at the number given by the applicant, but rather they may be contacted via social media or called at their place of work using the company’s main number, making it much more difficult to arrange to have a “fake-someone” complete the interview. Additionally, there is now new technology (AI) being employed to rate the likelihood that an applicant is falsifying their resumes and there are new 3rd Party vetting services that specialize in deeper dives/forensic reviews and vetting. Most recruitment agencies employ one or more of these companies to ensure experience and education listed are accurate. There are also registries being set up that use blockchain technology to verify the accuracy of the data people share. Applicants will have full control over who receives and sees their private information, and the companies this is shared with will be guaranteed of its accuracy.

What is important for consultants to take away from all this is that the industry is now “awake” to resume/applicant fraud and is taking significant steps to uncover issues prior to hiring. 99%+ of people are honest and don’t need to be concerned; however, even honest people can make mistakes. I encourage anyone reading this to go through their resume with a fine-toothed comb to ensure all is completely accurate. It is so easy to mess something up with changes from one version of the resume to another. You absolutely should adapt your resume to best match the role to which you are applying, but adapting isn’t embellishing.  Even though the content might look different, it should still be in sync with what was presented in older resumes. The chance that even small inconsistencies are caught are very much more likely than it ever was before and these little, seemingly insignificant issues, could cost you a job for which you are applying. In this way, attention to detail is more critical than ever.

Is That Job Too Good to Be True?

Is That Job Too Good to Be True?

 

Scammers’ intelligence is growing exponentially and nobody is safe from their activities. While it’s common to hear about less tech-savvy people losing out, there are also plenty of examples of even the most cautious organizations being caught off-guard. In 2019 alone, multiple Canadian municipalities got stung. The City of Ottawa lost $128K, the City of Burlington was out $503K and Saskatoon lost $1 million!

Scams can have devasting effects, from losing lifesavings to having your entire identity stolen, and they come in multiple forms. As a job seeker, it’s especially important to remain vigilant when applying for jobs, as thieves can steal your personal information and destroy your world before you can blink. There are a number of these types of scams floating around the internet and, while fewer target IT contract job opportunities specifically, it’s still wise to recognize these warning signs:

  • A job posting or email looks extremely unprofessional, with too many errors or using a free email address (ex. Gmail or Yahoo).
  • You get contacted about a job to which you don’t remember ever applying, or even uploading your resume to where the recruiter claims they found it.
  • The recruiter asks for your personal information way too early in the job application process
  • You’re required to pay money up-front just to be considered.
  • The hiring manager offers you the job almost immediately, after just a few emails and a glance at your resume.
  • The job opportunity is too good to be true.

Many of these postings may still be legitimate. Recruiters have creative ways to find resumes of talented people, so it is not uncommon for them to contact you about a job, right out of the blue. It just means they’re impressed by your experience and want to learn more. In other cases, a job opportunity might appear to be unprofessional because the poster is inexperienced or in a rush (a sign that you can bring them value!)

When a job posting has too many red flags or your gut just isn’t feeling right about it, do not apply. But, if you are interested and believe it could be something great, here are some extra steps you can take:

  • Review the LinkedIn profile of the person or company who posted the job to see their experience and connections.
  • Check the URL of the job posting and confirm it is actually with the company the say they are. Look for weird spellings like “Gogle” instead of “Google” or somebody creating false subdomain like “eagleonline.supergreatjobs.co. Just because their logo is visible, it doesn’t make the website real.
  • Go directly to the organization’s website that you know is legitimate by typing in the URL directly or through a Google Search. Review that website to see if the job in question is actually posted and look for a physical address to cross-reference on a map.
  • Pick up the phone or show up at their office to speak to the recruiter directly. It’s too easy to be duped through email or instant messaging.

Canada’s Anti-Fraud Centre provides more information about common job scams, as well as all other types of fraudulent activities. For more information or to report a scam, that is a great place to start. Happy job hunting… be careful out there!

You Should Never Just Up and Leave a Client, But Sometimes Life Happens

When you sign a contract, you make a commitment. A commitment to the client that you will perform specific work and a promise that you will be available to do that work for an agreed upon period of time. Both your client and your recruiter are trusting that you will uphold that contract in the same way that you are depending on them to deliver on their end of the deal.

As with everything in life, though, there are sometimes extenuating circumstances. On the client’s side, funding gets cut or for other reasons completely beyond their control, they are no longer able to continue working with you. On your end, perhaps you get sick or there is a family issue, and you are forced to end the contract before the scheduled end date.

In all cases, the party leaving the contract needs to do so properly in order to preserve the relationships. This video has some tips on how an independent contractor can help soften the blow if they need to leave their assignment suddenly.

Discussing Your Rate with Colleagues is Rarely Ever a Good Idea

Cameron McCallum By Cameron McCallum,
Regional Vice President at Eagle

Money never made a man happy yet, nor will it. The more a man has, the more he wants. Instead of filling a vacuum, it makes one. –Benjamin Franklin

I can’t count the number of times throughout my career that I have been approached by a contractor asking for an immediate increase to their hourly rate mid-contract. And when asked what has changed, the reason was not that the role had morphed into a more senior position with added responsibilities. Instead, it turned out that the contractor had discussed rates with a colleague and found out that there was discrepancy in rates and they were not earning as much as the individual sitting next to them on the project. While it is tempting to be a party to these conversations, in fact they can have serious negative consequences. Ask yourself the following questions next time you run into this scenario:

  1. Do you really have the complete story? There are so many variables that determine a contract rate and there is no way that you will likely ever have the complete story. Contract rates are based on project budgets and there can be ranges between rates for the same position. A hire early on in the process might have had access to a bigger pot but if you are hired last, there may have been less money left. Perhaps the person you are comparing yourself to had a history with the client and they were willing to pay more to get them. I’ve also seen a client hire a number of “senior” resources at a higher rate and then determine that they need to add someone but change the category to “intermediate” with lower rates. And are you completely certain that your colleague is telling you the truth. Some people feel very uncomfortable having this conversation and they may feel inclined to embellish the truth. The point is, we often end up making assumptions without having the full story.
  2. Didn’t you sign a contract? A contract is a contract and when you sign a legal document agreeing to the terms and conditions that exist within that contract, the expectation is that you will. Make sure you do the heavy lifting up front. Just as any business owner/operator should do, ask questions so that you understand completely and have considered everything about the role you are potentially signing up for, not just the qualifications needed, the end client or the duration and rate. You are running a business and ultimately are responsible for the decisions you make to accept or decline an opportunity. Can you imagine the contractor who has agreed to renovate your kitchen coming to you in the middle of the renovation demanding more money because they’ve heard that a fellow contractor got more money for doing a kitchen down the block. They wouldn’t and for good reason!
  3. Are you thinking long term? Trying to renegotiate your contract in the middle demonstrates short term thinking and rarely turns out positive. You risk destroying relationships and burning bridges, something I have witnessed countless times. Instead, before you act on your assumptions, go back to the reasons you accepted the contract in the first place — the technology, the location, the duration, whatever it was that made it attractive. Think about the valuable relationships you’ve forged with your Recruiter, the client and your colleagues on the project. Then think about what delivering a successful outcome will mean when you are pursuing your next project. The more you build your reputation as a professional and the more you are associated with positive project outcomes, the easier it is to negotiate higher rates for future contracts.

I believe that if you want to make more money, the trick is to be patient, think like an entrepreneur, be professional and good things will happen. So next time, instead of getting caught up in the moment and feeling like someone has taken advantage of you, don’t lose track of the end goal.

A Look at How Developers Think (thanks to Stack Overflow)

Early last month we shared some results from the 2018 Stack Overflow Survey that showed trends in the most used technologies and what jobs bring in the most money for developers. That’s all great, but you see those trends all the time. Fortunately Stack Overflow also asks its respondents some more unique questions which results in interesting findings about the way developers think. Here are a few of our favourite highlights:

Belonging and Career Satisfaction

Apparently, life as a developer is like a fine wine: it gets better with time. The survey asked respondents about their kinship or connection with other developers, the competition they feel at work and if they feel their peers are better than them. The results are clear. As developers get more experience, life becomes better at work, with less competition. This is in line with some additional findings in the survey, that showed career satisfaction is more prevalent among older developers (ages 50+) who have more than 20 years of professional experience.

Belonging and Career Satisfaction

Ethics

Stack Overflow also took a dive into the topic of ethics this year and the good news is, most developers say they are ethical professionals when considering what projects to take on. More than half of developers surveyed say they would refuse to write code for unethical purposes and another 36.6% said they would carefully consider what it is before agreeing to do so. Unfortunately, there are still 4.8% of developers out there who would have no problems writing code for unethical purposes.

If developers were to discover unethical code, nearly half would report it and about 75% of them would keep it within the company. Most of the rest say it would depend on the situation, but there remain that 5% who would will look the other way.

While few developers believe that they would be ultimately responsible for code that accomplishes something unethical, the good news is that about 80% of developers do agree that they have an obligation to consider the ethical implications of their code

The Future of AI

Finally, Stack Overflow took an interesting look at where developers believe Artificial Intelligence is going and what effects it will have on our future. While many are excited about the potential, such as increasing automation of jobs and algorithms to make important decisions, others are concerned about those very same things and believe it to be dangerous. In general, more than 70% of developers are more excited about AI’s possibilities than its dangers.

What Developers Think About AI

This is just the tip of the iceberg of what you’ll find in the 2018 Stack Overflow survey. Check out their website for more information, such as how developers are looking for jobs, demographics of developers around the world, and career-specific information.

Contractor Quick Poll: Have you ever lied on your resume?

It’s not uncommon for recruiters to notice certain inconsistencies in independent contractors’ experience. In a few extreme cases, we interview candidates only to learn that they have no clue what they’re talking about and clearly made up experience to get their foot in the door. More commonly, though, after comparing different versions of resumes or asking a few detailed questions, we learn that a contractor may have stretched the truth a bit in order to qualify.

While we never encourage these actions and know that lies always get uncovered eventually, we thought we’d take the opportunity of this month’s anonymous contractor quick poll to learn how many people lie or stretch the truth on their resume.

12 Signs You’re Working with an Ethical IT Recruiter

12 Signs You're Working with an Ethical IT RecruiterIT contractors and job seekers have literally hundreds of technology recruiters to choose from when searching for new work. ACSESS, Canada’s staffing industry association, has more than 1000 member offices across the country, and that doesn’t include the many more employment agencies who don’t contribute. With that many staffing agency players, odds are that although most recruiters you deal with will be helpful, you’re bound to come across some who are terrible, lazy, rude or, worst of all, unethical.

Selecting an IT recruiter has many considerations — their connection to the market and opportunities, their ability to communicate, the additional value they bring, etc. — and whether or not they meet your ethical threshold. Unethical recruiters will not only fail to find you the right job, they also bring you down with them and tarnish your professional reputation.

The good news is that ethical recruiters can be easy to spot as long as you know what you’re looking for. Here are 12 traits all ethical recruiters share:

  1. They’re part of their staffing industry association and follow a code of ethics.
  2. They never ask you for money
  3. They want to meet you and get to know you, your skills, and your preferences
  4. They’ve taken the time to know a client and opportunity before presenting it to you
  5. They never exaggerate the opportunity or hide facts
  6. They’re clear about the hiring process (theirs and the client’s)
  7. They never try to push you into a role you’re clearly not a fit for
  8. They ask for your consent before sending anything to a client
  9. They never encourage you to lie
  10. They only let you update your own resume (or make a specific request to make updates and provide you with complete details)
  11. They work with the other recruiters within their agency, so you learn about all new opportunities
  12. They encourage you to work with other recruiters and agencies

If you can confidently check every one of these off of your list, then proceed and build that relationship!

If you’re working with a recruiter who doesn’t clearly meet one or more of these traits, we recommend treading carefully with your relationship and asking more questions. You may even consider moving on to another staffing agency. What other traits do you look for in an IT recruiter to judge their ethics?

Always Finish Strong

Cameron McCallum By Cameron McCallum,
Regional Vice President at Eagle

“Starting strong is good. Finishing strong is epic!” – Robin Sharma

Business People at Finish LineHow many times have you seen people who fail to finish strong either because they know they are almost done with a project, job, or even a work-out, typically because they become fatigued, bored or otherwise disinclined to continue to put the required effort needed to stand out.

Starting new projects or initiatives is always a time of excitement and for some contractors, that adrenaline rush of experiencing new challenges and meeting and influencing new people or environments is exactly what keeps them going in the contracting world.

But one of the most common problems I’ve witnessed and one that absolutely changes the client’s perception of the contractor’s overall performance is what happens in the final stages of the project when most of the work is complete and things are wrapping up. Feedback up until that point was extremely positive, everything along the way was good news (or no news). And just when extending the contract or finding the individual a new contract seems to be a no brainer, the wheels fall off.

It’s at this critical time, just as a contract is about to be completed, that a contractor can cement their reputation as being an absolute pro or conversely, and unfortunately, a dud! Here are a number of things to avoid if you would prefer to be the former, and not the latter:

1. Do More Than is Required

“What is the distance between someone who achieves their goals consistently and those who spend their lives and careers merely following? The extra mile.”

And do more than is required right up until the last day and hour of the project that you were contracted to deliver. If you keep that mindset as an independent contractor, you will build a reputation in the marketplace as a professional who consistently brings value to the project right up until its conclusion.

2. Don’t Let the Hunt for Your New Gig Get in the Way

“There are only two options regarding commitment. You are either in or you’re out. There is no such thing as life in between”

It’s true that as a contractor, you are responsible for “self-marketing” to ensure that you have your next contract in hand while wrapping up the contract you are currently on. But too often, contractors start fixating on their next contract. And so the work on their current project suffers. Attendance becomes spotty and deliverables suffer. Sacrificing the hard work and solid reputation you’ve earned at the very last stages of your contract is not wise. Not only will you risk angering a client who might still be considering you for other projects or an extension, but that disappointment could lead to an even earlier termination, making the issue of your next contract even more serious.

3. Don’t Rob Peter to Pay Paul

In other words, don’t let the fear of a “gap” in projects prompt you to accept a new contract prior to the end of your current one. This is typically mishandled for a number of reasons.

The contractor is embarrassed or afraid to quit so they invent a reason why they have to leave the contract early. The lie is usually uncovered at some point and there goes your hard-earned reputation.

They begin the search months before the contract is scheduled to end under the assumption that it is never too early to start looking. Well in fact, it is. Now you have an excited recruiter and client who believe that you are ready to start a new contract on their timeline. Either way, you’re guaranteed to make someone unhappy whether you accept the new contract and quit the old early, or stay with the current and turn down the new contract.

In the rare event that both parties accept the overlap, you end up promising both parties that you can deliver and then fail miserably at one, the other, or both.

4. Work with your Recruiters(s)

Plan a schedule of communication with your current recruiter so that you can help each other plan any transition. Share information and project knowledge to determine if there is an extension coming your way or if there are new opportunities on the horizon that correspond with your contract end. If you attend an interview prior to your contract finishing, let the interviewers know when you are expected to finish your current contract. Set the expectation with them that you will complete your current contract, that it is a part of your service delivery approach. If anything, it should impress upon them that you are a professional with integrity. And if things don’t line up perfectly, you can always offer to do project prep work while finishing up your current gig. This can always be done at home, on the bus or during weekends.

Starting new projects is always fun but it can be a challenge to finish strong. Commit to staying connected to your end goal which should be providing service and value right up to the last day of the project you are on. Don’t let yourself get waylaid by impatience or worrying about your next job. Trust that your training, experience and reputation will play a big part in the successful transition to a new contract. And work with professional recruiters to augment your search.

What to Do When You Have Multiple Job Offers

Frances McCart By Frances McCart,
Vice-President, Business Development at Eagle

What was once rare is now common within the IT community — the dilemma of what to do when you have multiple job offers coming in.

What To Do When You Have Multiple Job Offers

Being in demand is great!  As the saying goes, “when it rains, it pours”.  Candidates often ask me what they should do when they are in the midst of interviewing for several positions with multiple firms and what they should do if they receive offers at the same time.  My number one rule: honesty is the best policy.  Keep everyone informed about where you are in your job search process.  If you have several interviews on the go, and you have just met with another new potential company, let them know where you are in process with other firms (ie. just had a second interview, an offer is coming, etc…)  Being professional is very important, especially in a community as small at the IT sector.  Some people think it is none of anyone’s business where you are in your search but being upfront and honest is never a bad thing.  The agencies and companies that you are working with will 100% appreciate the candor and will often see you as a better candidate than others due to your honesty and approach.

Here are some steps that will make decisions process a little easier…

1- Verbal offers – are they as good as a written offer?

Short answer is NO.  Until you have all the details, a verbal offer is not binding.  It does not happen often, but I have seen clients renege on a verbal offer as they lose funding during the approval process.  If you do receive a verbal offer first, express enthusiasm and that you are looking forward to seeing all the details before committing.

2- Written offers – what is really being offered?

Once you have your written offers, take the time to thoroughly go over all the details.  If you are missing information, don’t hesitate to ask for the extra details.  Offer letters often refer to policies that all employees must adhere to but they are often missing from the offer package.  Ask to see these policies as they may impact your decision.  Offers should contain more than just the start date and the compensation package.  Packages should include role description, job title, who you report to, total compensation package including bonus payouts, share options (if applicable), vacation entitlement, benefits package, expense policy, technology policies (i.e. cell phone plan, laptops, etc..).  Important policies to review are intellectual property and non-compete agreement, especially if you are working with new technologies and start-ups.

3 – Take the time to make the right decision.

The interview process is typically a long process, usually due to the client’s hiring hurdles that all candidates must go through.  It is a lot of hurry up and wait and then the offer comes.  Typically, once a verbal offer has been extended (and clients often ask for a verbal confirmation over the phone accepting the offer), they do not give candidates enough time to thoroughly review the details.  It is important to set an expectation with the client that you do need time to review and when you will have a firm answer back them.

If you need extra time, let the hiring managers know.  Be upfront with them they reason why.  Let them know you have a competing offer and want to ensure you are considering all factors in your decision  process.  Clients 100% prefer to know if a candidate has a competing offer rather than be surprised down the road when you start… and then soon after quit.

4 – Develop a pros and cons list for each offer.

Having multiple offers at once is exciting and flattering and sometimes overwhelming.  The best way to review offers is to create a decision matrix listing what each offer has and assigning value to each point.  Factors outside of compensation that have impact on the decision may be benefits, stress level, reporting structure, projects under way, advancement opportunity, work life balance, commuting time, flexibility, etc.  It is often the “soft” factors that sway your decision to take one over the other.

5 – Be professional.

Far too often, candidates that are in demand become arrogant when they receive multiple requests for interviews and then receive multiple offers.  Candidates sometimes exhibit negative behaviour such as dishonesty and game playing.  I agree that people must look out for themselves but there is a fine line between this point and being self-centered.  Candidates should take into consideration the repercussions their actions will have on the potential employer they “game” and their career.  Even though they may not end up with that firm, a client will remember how a candidate treated them and stories of unprofessional behaviour tend to get passed around, especially in a small community such as IT.  Like candidates, hiring managers move from company to company, and they have a long memory, especially of those people who were high handed and unprofessional in a hiring process.  Please be professional and keep all parties informed of where you are in the decision process.  Honesty goes along way.  So does professionalism.

6 – Once an offer has been accepted

Once an offer has been accepted, remove yourself from consideration.  Notify the other would-be employers of your final decision immediately .  Be professional.  Don’t be that candidate who takes the first offer they receive, knowing they have other offers coming, only to start one day and quit the next week.  Send a round of sincere thank yous to all involved, from the agency, to the HR team to the hiring manager.

Depending on your industry and skillset, as your skills continue to increase and the looming skills gap in the IT sector grows, multiple job offers may be more frequent for you in the future. While this is exciting and also tends to lead to higher pay rates, it’s equally important to think of the long-term effects of your actions. Remember to continue to act ethically and be aware of the many stakeholders involved in your hiring process. The more respectful you are to them now, the more respectful they will be to you down the road.